tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post2646380056263740130..comments2024-03-25T14:09:59.347-05:00Comments on Augoeides: The Chart Victor CalculationScott Stenwickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-41252333546013090282024-01-08T15:38:39.942-06:002024-01-08T15:38:39.942-06:00I would run chart victors for the two and go with ...I would run chart victors for the two and go with whichever one was strongest. Same for planet on the MC, since that will change the house points.<br /><br />Not sure if that lines up with the Picatrix rules because I don't know them all off the top of my head, but that is what I would try if these were the options I was choosing between.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-64289578958596162842024-01-07T21:50:08.581-06:002024-01-07T21:50:08.581-06:00I have been learning a lot about traditional metho...I have been learning a lot about traditional methods of charting an election. Mars is now in Capricorn (+4), a sign of exaltation. So for a Scorpio election, we would want to make Mars as strong as possible. We also have an option to strengthen it using the 2nd decan of Capricorn (+1), which is ruled by Mars. Doing it at night would place it in its sect. Now for the Moon and Asc/MC, this is where it gets confusing. Currently the Moon is in Scorpio - a sign of its fall - but the Moon in Capricorn may also be used. Both cases strengthen the Scorpio election. Picatrix magicians say not to use an afflicted Moon such as Scorpio or Capricorn but of course for a Scorpio working, we would need to use it.<br /><br />Since Mars is in Capricorn, do we put the Moon in Scorpio or Cap?<br />As for the Asc/MC, should it also be Scor or Cap? Scor is uninhabited by any planet, whereas Mars is in Cap. Picatrix magicians say that the planet needs to be in either the Asc or MC during its hour because that is how it opens the curtain to our world.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-29574344451246511032023-12-05T17:12:03.165-06:002023-12-05T17:12:03.165-06:00The chart victor is just the chart victor. It does...The chart victor is just the chart victor. It does not matter what planet is second, third, etc. For Enochian princes you can go with the day or the planetary sub-aspect for the Prince (since they differ from the day). Either will work.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-38590807352951622432023-11-30T17:05:00.555-06:002023-11-30T17:05:00.555-06:00Scott, when calculating for Enochian Princes, shou...Scott, when calculating for Enochian Princes, should the victor be the hour or the day? So for Friday I want to charge Prince Bagenol for a task...if the Victor is 1st = VENUS, 2nd = MOON is that okay? Or does it HAVE to be one or the other?<br /><br />Thanks!Ravennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01407445066576853785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-10207572273568290562023-06-14T01:54:14.051-05:002023-06-14T01:54:14.051-05:00Yes, that is correct. Negative aspects on the char...Yes, that is correct. Negative aspects on the chart victor will not affect the operation unless the victor is the planet that is being worked with.<br /><br />I don't understand why astrologers would consider switching to elemental or zodiacal operations when a specific planet is badly aspected "a suicide." That really doesn't make sense to me.<br /><br />Let's say you are trying to work a love spell and Venus is badly aspected. If you switch to zodiacal, you can use a power like Cancer - casting enchantments - to draw a partner to you. Cancer is ruled by the Moon, so it has nothing to do with Venus. I don't see why astrologers would find anything wrong with that.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-84162103472666338092023-06-13T15:44:58.366-05:002023-06-13T15:44:58.366-05:00Okay, I understand now. So, if we want to work wit...Okay, I understand now. So, if we want to work with a desired planet, it's important that the aspects are not negative, regardless of whether it's the victor. In other words, if the planet we choose is already in a negative aspect at the chosen time, there's no point in doing the almuten calculation. Several times now, I have wasted time doing almuten calculations only to realize that my chosen planet was in a negative aspect. It taught me to put the aspect consideration on the first step of the calculation, not the last.<br /><br />'So I would look at doing a zodiacal or elemental operation if I couldn't find a good time where the planet I want to work with was free of negative aspects.'<br /><br />Astrologers would call this a suicide because of the afflicted planet but not me because 90% of magicians outside of lodge magick don't work with the signs or elements anyway.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-38685056624161733492023-06-13T12:23:14.854-05:002023-06-13T12:23:14.854-05:00Aspects like that for the chart victor are only re...Aspects like that for the chart victor are only relevant if you are working with that planet, and it has nothing to do with that planet being the chart victor. It has to do with avoiding working with planets that are in negative applying aspects.<br /><br />It's not clear that the number of points each planet gets is relevant to the calculation. The calculation is just intended to find the strongest one. Even if the difference is one point, the victor is still the victor. But it also is true that in that situation, you likely can tweak the timing in some way to get the victor you want.<br /><br />I'm not clear how you would use what you propose in terms of a specific operation. I mean, the operation is either related to the planet that's the victor, or it isn't. You mention Venus - let's say you want to do a love spell and Venus is the victor, followed by Mercury with the next most points. You wouldn't want to do a Mercury operation for a love spell, so switching from a Venus operation to a Mercury is not going be helpful.<br /><br />So I would look at doing a zodiacal or elemental operation if I couldn't find a good time where the planet I want to work with was free of negative aspects. Jumping from one planet to another only makes sense if the problem you're working with is the sort of thing that more than one planet can be appropriate for. And even so, if you switch planets but do the operation at the same time, the victor doesn't change.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-15607043501216803452023-06-08T19:18:38.393-05:002023-06-08T19:18:38.393-05:00If the chart victor for an instance is say Venus b...If the chart victor for an instance is say Venus but it is squaring both Moon and Jupiter, what is the next step? To skip the Venus operation entirely or to select the next planet with the most points? If the 2nd planet is also in negative aspects with one or more planets, then should the 3rd strongest planet be chosen and so on? Or can one not do a zodiacal or elemental ritual instead to skip the bad aspects of Venus. This article warns to watch out for negative aspects.<br /><br />2nd, what if the difference between the victor and the planet in 2nd place is just one point.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-41397193720240749712023-05-30T14:39:11.099-05:002023-05-30T14:39:11.099-05:00I always thought that the full operant field was e...I always thought that the full operant field was equivalent to a protective circle one would spent hours drawing on the ground and now whenever I think of doing a spell without it, knowing how much I have read on magicians suffering horribly from just a conjuration, gives me the creeps. Later grimoires like Key of Solomon, one of the best grimoires, do include circles but also include protective daggers, rings, triangles, thwarting angels and I've yet to meet a KoS practitioner that has had a negative return. However, these grimoires expect a negative spirit to come through the working, not a spell manifesting negatively.<br /><br />By adding the additional steps of the field and tuning the space, it can cut off even that.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-59677746225723646352023-05-30T14:22:47.765-05:002023-05-30T14:22:47.765-05:00I consider the ceremonial forms to have at least a...I consider the ceremonial forms to have at least as much to do with subtle energies than anything astral. Experimentally, I find that casting spells astrally does not work nearly as well as casting them physically, which implies a difference between astral and energetic. But otherwise it probably is something like that - by adding the additional steps of the field and tuning the space, it cuts off some negative aspects.<br /><br />Just had a thought while writing this. The LRP/LRH essentially creates a circle in which the magician works. Picatrix, as I understand it, includes no such construction - but later grimoires do. The circle is generally explained as protective. So maybe that has something to do with why using the forms limits negative aspects. Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-89961734360064215092023-05-30T02:49:37.793-05:002023-05-30T02:49:37.793-05:00I think I may know why. Since our spells start wit...I think I may know why. Since our spells start with ceremonial rituals like operant field, MP, GIRP/H, it cuts off some of the bad aspects. Golden Dawn Magic is astral magick. Astral magick only improves all kinds of magick.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-52901396786806270942023-05-29T20:28:12.751-05:002023-05-29T20:28:12.751-05:00Yes, small changes in time will give different poi...Yes, small changes in time will give different point values for the chart victor. You have to take into account the whole calculation, not just a couple of the components.<br /><br />I have not found that the speed of the Moon makes much difference for the kind of magick that I do. But then, my methods are also pretty different from what's done in the Picatrix.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-16680580776969713282023-05-29T15:12:34.403-05:002023-05-29T15:12:34.403-05:00I forgot to post this along with my original disco...I forgot to post this along with my original discovery.<br /><br />If the Moon is slow i,e below 13° of daily motion, do you still do the ritual? Picatrix says that a slow moon is only good for malevolent workings but refutes itself by also saying that no magick works if the moon is slow. Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-29505072053134762342023-05-29T14:57:56.682-05:002023-05-29T14:57:56.682-05:00I just did a practice calculation for what I belie...I just did a practice calculation for what I believed would result in a Venus almuten, but it turned out to be the Moon. This occurred because both the hour and day lord were in the Moon. However, by slightly time shifting the ritual by a few minutes and placing the Asc in a different sign, it caused a complete redistribution of all house points and points in the Asc row. Surprisingly, this resulted in even more points being awarded to the Moon, despite the Asc not being in Cancer or Taurus. It appears that having the Asc in the ruling planet's sign may not necessarily strengthen the planet, as one might assume, due to the significant changes in house position points and the rearrangement of the entire Asc row points caused by the change in the Asc sign. Although this time shift only resulted in a mere two additional points, the Moon is still the Almuten for that instance that too in the month of Gemini, Mercury. And it's the points that determine the outcome.<br /><br />You just learned something new, while I just gained another election :DSamathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-6828365016306407452023-05-22T03:22:41.413-05:002023-05-22T03:22:41.413-05:00It is possible that there is an error in the calcu...It is possible that there is an error in the calculation, but I do not have time right now to go through it. This is just a working example, not anything that was used for a practical operation. If it's wrong, I'll fix it when I get a chance.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-24042009059043461282023-05-14T16:49:06.113-05:002023-05-14T16:49:06.113-05:00I'm not sure whether my eyes deceive me, but I...I'm not sure whether my eyes deceive me, but I see that for the triplicity points, prenatal lunation being in Capricorn is awarded to Mercury even though Capricorn being an Earth sign, should award 3 points to Moon by night just as in the first row.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-16128436015255151212023-05-13T23:22:26.874-05:002023-05-13T23:22:26.874-05:00Yes, that is how it works. Prenatal lunation is al...Yes, that is how it works. Prenatal lunation is always the previous New or Full Moon, regardless of how close the Moon is to the next one.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-32971560471792912312023-05-13T19:29:10.094-05:002023-05-13T19:29:10.094-05:00Well I just learned how to get the prenatal lunati...Well I just learned how to get the prenatal lunation of this chart, by progressing it backwards and indeed it comes out as 7Capricorn'59 for the new moon on 29th December. Having to figure out this Almuten calculation is getting easier and easier by the day. However, if our elected time was a day before the new moon, would we still progress our chart backwards all the way to the full moon? Mind you, I haven't run the calculation yet but this is the election I have chosen.Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-79674809929104005332023-05-11T16:51:19.671-05:002023-05-11T16:51:19.671-05:001. Prenatal lunation only takes into account New a...1. Prenatal lunation only takes into account New and Full Moons. The quarters are ignored.<br /><br />2. Sign in house is not taken into account. The house position of the planet is the house position of the planet, not the house position of sign(s) that the planets rule. You ignore the latter for chart victors.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-38246915974135210662023-05-11T12:39:07.460-05:002023-05-11T12:39:07.460-05:00While I understand most of this chart, I can't...While I understand most of this chart, I can't understand how the points were given to the planets in the house row. If Capricorn is the Asc in this chart, shouldn't Saturn get 12 points? But it got 2. How were the points distributed?Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-40266204475836926172023-05-06T18:31:49.913-05:002023-05-06T18:31:49.913-05:00I checked this chart on a website and while the Mo...I checked this chart on a website and while the Moon is in 9th degree of Gemini, the prenatal lunation is 'First Quarter Moon (112°30’)'. How does one get 7th degree of Capricorn in this chart?Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-41972242842881593932022-05-23T08:50:55.669-05:002022-05-23T08:50:55.669-05:00That is not a typo, that is the traditional attrib...That is not a typo, that is the traditional attribution. So if Sun is in Virgo, for example, it gets the 5 points for the Rulership and 4 points for the Exaltation.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-77575734364888485572022-05-22T23:47:58.681-05:002022-05-22T23:47:58.681-05:00In the sign rulership table, Mercury is listed und...In the sign rulership table, Mercury is listed under Virgo as both the rulership and exaltation. Is that a typo, or does Mercury 10 points due to being counted twice?HalcArehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14701761816597212134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-65633300518699118722021-05-27T05:24:44.837-05:002021-05-27T05:24:44.837-05:00Yes, there is an Almuten figuris, its actually dif...Yes, there is an Almuten figuris, its actually different to the dominant planet.Rodavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10298412144184370514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-16671317261213384592021-05-24T02:45:46.914-05:002021-05-24T02:45:46.914-05:00It is complicated, and to be clear, I did very eff...It is complicated, and to be clear, I did very effective rituals for many years without it. However, I do find that it helps produce better results.<br /><br />You can use some astrology software programs to calculate this. It most programs that support the calculation it's called an "almuten." If one of the three dominant planets you are talking about is an almuten, that's your chart victor. It is the same idea as working out the most dominant planet, but I don't know enough about how your software makes its dominant planet calculations to be sure how similar or different they might be.<br /><br />"Almuten" is an English corruption of the Arabic name for the Chart Victor, Al-Mubtazz, which means "the victor" or "the winner."Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.com