tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post4273475575818454483..comments2024-03-25T14:09:59.347-05:00Comments on Augoeides: Thoughts on the Lesser Ritual of the HexagramScott Stenwickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-10676369012856210382024-02-14T11:54:42.542-06:002024-02-14T11:54:42.542-06:00So here is the deal. You asked my opinion of an id...So here is the deal. You asked my opinion of an idea that you had. In terms of how I understand the LRH your question does not really make sense. But that doesn't mean it's objectively wrong. There is no general theory of magick that we can test these things against, for a lot of different reasons.<br /><br />If you're going to ask me a question about whether I think X makes more sense than the methods I have found to work over time, I'm always going to say no. I work the rituals in the best and most effective way that I have worked out for myself, and the way I do them makes complete sense to me.<br /><br />But again - none of that is objective. We would need a solid set of experiments done over a long period of time that passed peer review and was replicable in order to be reasonably certain that it might be. And yes, this sort of experimentation is very difficult to do - in part because there are still so many people out there who aren't willing to publish their methods and experimental results.<br /><br />You would do the two spells at different times, trying to get everything as close as you can. But there still are always factors that are going to be different. So you have to do multiple sets over time.<br /><br />But yes, it's very difficult, which is why I can't say with any certainty that your idea wouldn't work. But I also want to see some evidence that it's not just a pretty pattern before I devote significant time to testing it out. I've come across more pretty patterns in magick that wind up not working at all than I can count over the years.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-30353885829307187532024-02-12T07:58:17.160-06:002024-02-12T07:58:17.160-06:00Thank you for your answer.
I see how magic is a te...Thank you for your answer.<br />I see how magic is a technology and I am sure there are practices that have pretty patterns and don't work, but I refuse to think that practicese that work are symbollically meaningless, just we don't know which the meaning of those symbols are.<br />Just a brief response to your answer: I am aware the deosil motion is based on the Sun during the day and I see the meaning in, let's say, the LRP where clearly that's the pattern. But I understood the LRH was precisely about the motion of the Sun during the year.<br />Anyway, you have said something very interesting I have read from you in several occasions: about experimenting with practical rituals with measurable results. I have been practicing magic for some years now, although not many, and I have experiment several times with patterns in rituals. Usually, I feel a kind of discomfort feeling when I am doing something that "doesn's work" for a while; and a feeling of "yes, now is working" when, after a period of time, I change that pattern. I trust on me on that, but it is a slow process. So what you are saying is very interesting. Can you give a concrete example or link some post in your blog? I assume you are not saying of casting a spell starting with doing LRH in a way and then the same spell in the other, because, how could you say which has worked? Neither two different spells with the two different openings because the causes for one is working and one is not could be very different. So I assume you are talking about invoking the same planetary force-entity for a period of time with both methods, for example. Am I right? Even so, for me, making the same ritual for a period of time exactly the same way results in very different outcomes depending on my mood, the experiences of the day, etc. So I found what you propose very difficult to do.Prosoponhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977131597416665305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-52037710005315575492024-02-08T17:50:28.028-06:002024-02-08T17:50:28.028-06:00First off, magick is a technology. It works the wa...First off, magick is a technology. It works the way it works. Whether or not it makes logical sense is irrelevant. Logical sense can help with figuring out what hypotheses to test, but that's it. If you do the test and it doesn't work, that means it doesn't work.<br /><br />I start with that not because of your question only, but because I literally see this all the time. "Wouldn't it make more sense if you did X instead of Y?" The answer is often "maybe," but the only way to know is to to the experiment. Sometimes the prettiest, most logical patterns you can think of don't hold at all in practice.<br /><br />Now regarding your question - deosil motion is based on the motion of the Sun during the day, not the stationing of the Sun during the year. There's no contradiction as I see it because those are two different things. But to be clear - my opinion is simply based on the fact that doing the rituals the way I do them works. That doesn't mean they are currently fully optimized, only that I do them in the most optimal way that I currently have worked out.<br /><br />To answer this question for yourself, I recommend you do the experiment and see. Do a series of practical rituals with measurable results that you can compare doing the LRP clockwise and another doing the LRH counter-clockwise. Then you should be able to compare your two data sets and see for yourself. If it turns out that you get better results going counter-clockwise, post them somewhere so your findings can be reviewed and hopefully replicated. Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-20691652028153676282024-02-07T10:59:09.412-06:002024-02-07T10:59:09.412-06:00Hello Scott, thank you for your time and dedicatio...Hello Scott, thank you for your time and dedication.<br />I have been wondering for a while about and issue. I have searched in all books I know and I haven't be able to find anything there and neither in the entire web.<br />Why when tracing the hexagrams (LIRH or LBRH doesn't matter) one moves clockwise? I can't find the sense in it.<br />You start in the East (Aries, fire, spring), why are we supose to move to the south (Capricorn, earth, winter). That is not the move the sun does in the macrocosmic level. How does that make sense? Are we not mixing microcosm and macrocoms in a non sensical way?<br />Thank you, and sorry for my english.Prosoponhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02977131597416665305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-62322238768388642002023-12-06T09:53:11.434-06:002023-12-06T09:53:11.434-06:00No, I cannot say that I have come across anything ...No, I cannot say that I have come across anything like that. I have taught a few folks who consider themselves Satanists and they don't have any issues with the techniques I teach. I also know a couple folks online who are Christians and have gotten good results with my methods.<br /><br />The key to understanding my take on the unconscious mind is that it's not a mind as we understand it. The brain does do unconscious processing, but it's not the same thing as the kind of thinking we do consciously. It is not organized. It does not have goals, interests, needs, or even awareness. It essentially consists of conditioning loops built up over the course of our entire lives.<br /><br />Skinner tried to argue in the 1960's that all cognition is made up of conditioning loops. This is obviously wrong when talking about the conscious declarative mind, but it hits the nail on the head with respect to the unconscious. The unconscious literally runs on four or five rules total and its operation can easily be simulated by even a simple computer.<br /><br />This is the reason that psychoanalysis can't beat sham therapy - that is, it's effective a placebo even in cases where it works. It assumes that the conscious and unconscious operate in similar ways, so that if we make the conscious aware of what the unconscious is doing we can resolved mental illnesses. This entire assumption is false because the conscious and unconscious work in fundamentally different ways. This is also why therapeutic modalities that take into account this difference (CBT, DBT, etc.) do outperform sham therapy. That is, the modalities themselves work.<br /><br />In the context of magical development, the key takeaway is that you can't think your way around or out of a conditioning loop. In order to deal with issues related to conditioning, you need to recondition yourself - that is, use the four or five rules to reinforce conditioning patterns that you want running in your life. The end result of this process is that your conditioning system serves your will and not the other way around.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-76125263710065189542023-12-05T17:47:57.566-06:002023-12-05T17:47:57.566-06:00Hi Mr.Scott Stenwick
Thank you for responding and...Hi Mr.Scott Stenwick<br /><br />Thank you for responding and explaining everything!<br /><br />Also have you ever heard of anyone having trouble with Magickal development do to former <br /><br />religious affiliation such as Christianity or Satanism? (I am not blaming the Magick.)<br /><br />When you said that the subconscious mind was bs (because I see references to it in occult <br /><br />literature) is there a new more accurate model that you use and replaced it with?<br /><br />I hope that made since.<br /><br />THanks,<br /><br />jbyers2@tx.rr.com.jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557903294914444066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-16237430466986267402023-12-05T17:18:23.832-06:002023-12-05T17:18:23.832-06:00Oh, if you are thinking something is up because yo...Oh, if you are thinking something is up because your post did not appear right away, all posts are moderated these days. I have to personally approve them before they post, no matter who the message is from.<br /><br />I put it in because we were getting overrun by spammers and I could no longer keep up with deleting all the spam messages. It just got to be too much of a pain.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-57350099166252160162023-12-05T17:07:03.525-06:002023-12-05T17:07:03.525-06:00No, not at all. Sorry, I had a busy weekend and ju...No, not at all. Sorry, I had a busy weekend and just saw this comment.<br /><br />Usually any statement with "always" is going to be wrong some of the time. Magick often works in ways where you can't necessarily tease out the cause leading to the effect, but sometimes you can. It depends.<br /><br />Clairvoyance and other divinatory methods can help to navigate the path by which magick operates, but I find that such investigation usually isn't particularly useful. I focus on whether I get a result or not, and the only means I worry about is optimizing my ceremonial forms to get the best results.<br /><br />Schizophrenia is a completely different thing. It's a serious mental illness marked by disorganized delusions. A psychologist who isn't familiar with occultism might say that both magicians and schizophrenics "hear voices," but the content of those communications matters a lot. With a schizophrenic they generally aren't real psychic information and will defy any sort of verification, but with a magician not so much.<br /><br />The short version is that "voices" can be legitimate psychic information, or they can be delusions originating in dysfunctional brain processes.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-26377989456155843452023-12-01T11:10:45.521-06:002023-12-01T11:10:45.521-06:00Hi Mr.Scott Stenwick
Just a quick question.
Did ...Hi Mr.Scott Stenwick<br /><br />Just a quick question.<br /><br />Did I offend you in any way?<br /><br />If so I apologize!<br /><br />THanks,<br /><br />jbyers2@tx.rr.com. <br /><br /><br />jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557903294914444066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-37740387465681842952023-11-29T17:26:35.843-06:002023-11-29T17:26:35.843-06:00Hi Scott Stenwick,
Does Magick always work behind...Hi Scott Stenwick,<br /><br />Does Magick always work behind the scenes or can you actually see the causes and not just <br /><br />the effects to help you navigate your Magickal workings better?<br /><br />Would this be "clairvoyance"? And is clairvoyance even necessary?<br /><br />Also on a related matter since your a expert on neuroscience is "schizophrenia"<br /><br />a misdiagnosed clairvoyance to the uninitiated? Are they related? Or are they two <br /><br />completely different things?<br /><br /><br />Thanks <br /><br />jbyers2@tx.rr.com<br />jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557903294914444066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-89659512350803571942023-04-10T04:31:02.531-05:002023-04-10T04:31:02.531-05:00I see. I've had wonderful results so far with ...I see. I've had wonderful results so far with Regardie's version of the LRH when I've done magick using our Augoeides methods which was also the GD version except the original Mathers instructions said to do the 'signs of the 5 = 6 grade', which Regardie didn't put in his book because he forgot what they were and no published version contains that sign. Crowley used the LVX signs in place for that and the Ciceros who were taught by Regardie use the LVX signs and that is how the published version of the LRH is now done, so I feel no resistance towards doing it. Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-54699899211801737362023-04-10T03:32:16.493-05:002023-04-10T03:32:16.493-05:00The version of the ritual I learned is from Crowle...The version of the ritual I learned is from Crowley's Liber O, which does the Keyword Analysis before and after tracing the hexagrams. It sounds like that might be a difference between the Thelemic and Golden Dawn magical systems. I always have done the LRH that way.<br /><br />The version of the LRH that my magical working group developed also does its version of the Keyword Analysis before and after the hexagrams. I don't know what you might have seen where I only did it once, unless I messed something up in a video and wasn't aware of it.<br /><br />I'm not sure why you would do it once (Golden Dawn) versus twice (Thelema). But clearly, I would say that the Thelemic and Golden Dawn versions of the LRH are both effective. You should be able to work with whichever one appeals to you the most, and I think the results should be similar. Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-86999987726197709022023-04-09T04:17:40.734-05:002023-04-09T04:17:40.734-05:00Scott, I've been doing the LRH for a year with...Scott, I've been doing the LRH for a year with the Keyword analysis and LVX signs repeated only once after the tracing of the triangles, just like how the GD and Regardie teaches in his book but for some reason Crowley does it twice, both before and after the triangles. Can you explain why? I've also seen your group's personal version of the LRH in your videos which also uses them once. And I've read Nick Farrell's LVX article and his horrendous grammar aside, he too does it once. Checked with Matthers and found it to be the same as Regardie so that's how I've stuck to doing it, with the addition of visualizing the triangles in red and blue.<br /><br />John Michael Greer though, does it with the LVX signs silently first followed by the tracing of the triangles concluded by the Keyword Analysis and LVX signs.<br /><br />Samathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883615951812536611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-28433178682059604352023-03-30T18:07:39.807-05:002023-03-30T18:07:39.807-05:00Thank you for taking the time to answer my questio...Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. <br /><br />Great site as well. Much appreciated.<br />Halshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01880450149937523900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-61857454312075860222023-03-29T14:40:03.429-05:002023-03-29T14:40:03.429-05:00I do not know of a source that goes into greater d...I do not know of a source that goes into greater detail on those relationships aside from the ones I linked. I'm not 100% sure those diagrams are even canonical. In the Thelemic system, the LVX signs together are attributed to Tiphareth, and the individual deities are attributed to their corresponding columns in Liber 777.<br /><br />The difference between the LBRH and LIRH is the direction in which the hexagrams are traced. In the LBRH they go counter-clockwise and in LIRH they go clockwise. Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-66520079697934310922023-03-28T13:23:40.642-05:002023-03-28T13:23:40.642-05:00Also, I'm wondering (and apologize if you'...Also, I'm wondering (and apologize if you've stated it somewhere and I overlooked it) how do the LIRH and LBRH differ in practice from each other? Halshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01880450149937523900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-87305145166072094542023-03-28T12:15:03.509-05:002023-03-28T12:15:03.509-05:00Thank you for the links.
What I'm looking fo...Thank you for the links. <br /><br />What I'm looking for is an analysis of each sign as they are mapped out on the Tree of Life (as in the diagrams you provide at top). I can reach conclusions on my own given my knowledge of the Tree but it would be nice to compare my conclusions with what others have to say, and perhaps point out something I might have missed on my own.Halshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01880450149937523900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-17597961530241146162023-03-25T13:45:11.262-05:002023-03-25T13:45:11.262-05:00I do not have another article that goes into detai...I do not have another article that goes into detail on the LVX signs. Here are a few links I found with further exposition of them.<br /><br />https://www.nickfarrell.it/the-golden-dawns-lvx-formula/<br /><br />https://library.hrmtc.com/2013/01/31/lvx-nox/<br /><br />https://laptrinhx.com/news/on-the-lvx-and-nox-signs-lv5gQZR/<br /><br />If you have specific questions after reading over these let me know and I'll do my best to answer them.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-36777129703405287942023-03-21T12:32:10.049-05:002023-03-21T12:32:10.049-05:00Hello, thank you for this very informative post.
...Hello, thank you for this very informative post.<br /><br />Could you give a fuller explanation or post a link to one regarding the L.V.X. signs? The diagrams upon the Tree of Life are helpful, but a fuller analysis would be very much appreciated.<br /><br />Halshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01880450149937523900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-41984735005585102092022-12-01T12:17:02.308-06:002022-12-01T12:17:02.308-06:00I would work with Mercury to help with that. Somet...I would work with Mercury to help with that. Something like this:<br /><br />https://ananael.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-planetary-work-mercury.html<br /><br />Mercury rules both healing and clarity of mind.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-11835286949781536972022-12-01T00:40:56.932-06:002022-12-01T00:40:56.932-06:00Hi Mr. Scott Stenwick,
About that last question, ...Hi Mr. Scott Stenwick,<br /><br />About that last question, I'm was a little off base with that question about North and <br /><br />South and Clockwise and Counterclockwise, I do know the difference usually and your were <br /><br />right of course, but thank you for answer it anyway. I Recently have gone through a <br /><br />personal loss, and my mind seems to get crosswired sometimes, because I have not gotten <br /><br />over it yet. Do you know of any Magickal way to expedite the healing process so that I can <br /><br />think clearly a function without a clouded and confused mindset? <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />J<br /><br />jbyers2@tx.rr.com<br />jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557903294914444066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-77224011347160300972022-11-29T16:45:12.256-06:002022-11-29T16:45:12.256-06:00LRP goes clockwise - East, South, West, North. Sta...LRP goes clockwise - East, South, West, North. Star Ruby goes counter-clockwise - East, North, West, South.<br /><br />Neither ritual does anything with the cross-quarters. Therion is East, Nuit is North, Babalon is West, Hadit is South.<br /><br />I do the Elevenfold Seal as part of my daily practice, and I can't say I've noticed much as far as dreams go. It probably has to do with moving energy around, since like the Middle Pillar that's basically what the Elevenfold Seal does.<br /><br />Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-44441054307152588542022-11-28T20:49:20.137-06:002022-11-28T20:49:20.137-06:00Hi Mr. Scott Stenwick,
I'm a little confused...Hi Mr. Scott Stenwick, <br /><br />I'm a little confused, by your article, Thoughts on the Star Ruby, as well as Crowley's Book <br /><br />of Lies, page 25, and by Magick In Theory and Practice' in regards to "Widdershins"<br /><br />and counterclockwise. <br /> <br />"Advance to the East. Imagine strongly a Pentagram, aright, in thy forehead. Drawing the <br /><br />hands to the eyes, fling it forth, making the sign of Horus and roar ThÊRION. Retire thine <br /><br />hand in the sign of Hoor-paar-Kraat.<br /><br />Go round to the North and repeat; but say NUIT.<br /><br />Go round to the West and repeat; but whisper BABALON.<br /><br />Go round to the South and repeat; but bellow HADIT."<br /><br />If I go from the East to he North to the West to the South, as instructed, that's not <br /><br />"Counterclockwise" That's Clockwise.<br /><br />So are you and Crowley's saying to do East North West South Like the LBRP and then go <br /><br />counterclockwise SouthEast Corner (four quarters), SouthWest Corner, NorthWest Corner, and <br /><br />NorthEast Corner? If so how are the four names ThÊRION, NUIT, BABALON, HADIT arranged which <br /><br />corner Gets which name?<br /><br />Also after I perform " The Eleven Fold Seal" at the Svadistthana Cakkra "crying, BABALON!"<br /><br />I get a visit in my dreams my intense " Lucid Dreams" lot of fun butter ultra realistic!<br /><br />Do you have any insight?<br /><br />Thanks, <br /><br />J<br /><br />jbyers2@tx.rr.com<br /> <br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03557903294914444066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-29966849972695400412022-11-28T13:30:22.169-06:002022-11-28T13:30:22.169-06:00You can if you want. Both the Enterer/Silence meth...You can if you want. Both the Enterer/Silence method and vibrating while tracing work in my experience. I just generally prefer vibrating while tracing personally.Scott Stenwickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12389664381513219613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7294505416127496842.post-77921197558720417302022-11-27T18:59:40.151-06:002022-11-27T18:59:40.151-06:00Can you use the sign of the enterer and the sign o...Can you use the sign of the enterer and the sign of silence for the LIRH<br />Bob the magicianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14095218806914604022noreply@blogger.com