Wednesday, November 11, 2020

Ritual Night Talk for November 10th

Ritual Night Talk for November 10th - Improvisation and Experimentation

Ritual Night Talk for November 10th - Improvisation and Experimentation Donations:

Posted by Leaping Laughter on Tuesday, November 10, 2020

Here is the video of last night's Ritual Night Talk on improvisation and experimentation. The donation link is here.

Many people who are learning magick seem to have the idea that there is an exact way to do ceremonial rituals, and if they don't get every bit of minutia correct terrible things can happen. But this is more a horror movie idea than anything real. In fact, usually when you do things wrong all that happens is nothing. Experimentation in magick is a good thing, and all magicians should feel free to work out the methods that are most effective for their own practice.


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HalcAre said...

This is all really good advice, thanks.

Seems like magick is much less exacting than I thought, I was used to reading grimoires where the author would say something like "Follow the instructions exactly as written, or your ritual won't succeed."

And it's all correct pronunciation with highly specialised and hard to obtain tools, and while a lionskin belt would be cool, lions are endangered.

A simple talisman with half the strength of something more enduring or complex is infinitely better than no talisman. I'll make practical magick and experimentation my priority going forward.

Scott Stenwick said...

The grimoire folks tend to be a particularly exacting lot. Those jokes Alex and I keep making about the lion-skin belt goes back to a long and involved discussion on whether or not having one was an absolute necessity for doing grimoire magick (as far as I can tell it's not, but there are folks out there who will argue the point).

Basically, the deal is that you get better as a magician by doing the work, and even if your first few talismans don't work as well as you would like you get better every time you make one because you're increasing your magical skill by using it. And sometimes you find things that work better (at least for you) than the "standard" methods from whatever tradition you're working with. Those will make you a more effective magician, too.

Alex Scaraoschi said...

In my opinion, and y'all feel free to disagree, the lion-skin belt thing is kinda like buying a big truck ;)

Great video!

HalcAre said...

I think that when you consider the Goetia having a reputation for being uncooperative, if the general theme of Leo being the taming of wild beasts holds true for that system too, then a lionskin belt could be functioning as talisman increasing obedience.

It could be a necessary component of successful outcomes, like the ring in enochian.

Scott Stenwick said...

You likely are correct about the Leo symbolism of the belt. The question is more general, though. Would a ceremonially created Leo talisman do the same thing? That's just one question of many.

And we know it isn't necessary. At least hundreds, if not thousands, of magicians have worked with the Goetia over the last hundred years without those belts. Many of them report successful outcomes. I think I can name 5-10 off the top of my head who are currently doing just that and have been able to make the system work.

Now I will add that even though we can say with some certainty that it isn't strictly necessary, that doesn't mean having one wouldn't be helpful. The Leo talisman idea, though, probably works just as well and can be made from a variety of materials that don't come from endangered species.

Alex Scaraoschi said...

I think your comment about Leo was spot on! I think i remeber Skinner saying the spirits of the Goetia are more animal-like... I can't remeber his exact words.

And yes, I agree with you too, Scott, when it comes to the Leo talisman idea.

I for one think that the lion belt is something a Sunday-magician would use, whereas someone who's diligently doing the work and keeping up with their daily practice wouldn't need one after they reach a point when they can conjure spirits. By daily work I mean repeating certain practical techniques, as well as theurgical work.