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A number of readers have asked me to create some sort of forum where they could ask questions and discuss various aspects of Heptarchial magick as outlined in Mastering the Mystical Heptarchy. So here it is.
If you're reading the book and have questions about the rituals or other content feel free to add a comment. I'll check the page on a regular basis and hopefully be able to answer any questions to your satisfaction.
On June 12th of 2013 I appeared on the online radio program Deeper Down the Rabbit Hole and discussed Mastering the Mystical Heptarchy. You can download and listen to the podcast of my appearance here.
If you're reading the book and have questions about the rituals or other content feel free to add a comment. I'll check the page on a regular basis and hopefully be able to answer any questions to your satisfaction.
On June 12th of 2013 I appeared on the online radio program Deeper Down the Rabbit Hole and discussed Mastering the Mystical Heptarchy. You can download and listen to the podcast of my appearance here.
My second book, Mastering the Great Table, is now available. So I've renamed this forum page from "Heptarchia Mystica" to "Enochian Magick." Consider it a space in which you can ask questions about the Great Table as well as the Heptarchia. Mastering the Great Table is now also available in Kindle and ebook editions.
On October 12th of 2014 I appeared on Pagans Tonight Radio with Pam Kelly, discussing Enochian and grimoire magick. You can listen to the archive of my appearance here. This page is the forum I mentioned on the show, where you can ask questions about my books and Enochian magick in general.
On April 14th of 2017 my Intoduction to Enochian Magick talk presented at Leaping Laughter Lodge in Minneapolis was featured on the Thelema NOW! podcast. You can listen to it here.
In May of 2017 I was interviewed by Rufus Opus as part of his ongoing interview series. You can listen to that interview here.
467 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 467 of 467The secrets of Enochian is revealed!!!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/179564494X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_ZfIACb5G8BEFS
Wow, are you a bot? You ignored every single thing I suggested that you do, including truncating the Amazon URL. Pray tell, what are the "secrets" of Enochian, besides the direct experiences that you get from doing the work?
I'll wait...
checkout the link so you will understand
...LOL...
Now that's rude!
Is there any particular symbolism to the Angelic letters similar to the Hebrew ones?
Can you explain that a little more? I am not sure what you mean by specific symbolism.
True. What I meant to say was that each Hebrew letter means a certain thing: Aleph-Ox, Gimel-Camel etc. I was wondering if the same happens with the letters from the Angelic alphabet.
As far as we know the answer is no. We do not see the names of the letters show up in other words or as portions of other words that might imply a translation. But the problem there is that our vocabulary for the language is so limited that it is hard to say for sure. The names don't match the sounds of the letters, so it would be logical to think they have some other meaning - and they might! We just don't know because all we have to work with is the language found in the Keys. Even the untranslated language found in Liber Loagaeth doesn't appear to be the same as what is properly called Anglic or Enochian according to linguistic analysis.
I see. I was only asking this because certain Angelic letters have started to appear in my mind's eye instead of Hebrew ones. Whereas I at least had a clue to what those signs meant, I have no idea in this case. I guess my higher self decided to increase the level of difficulty for me :) thank you!
@Scott, any further news or rumours of when your next enochian book on the aetheric calls will be published?
No date yet - hoping I will have one soon, since my publisher has had the manuscript for something like a year and a half.
I am fairly certain that DMK said doing the SIRP in the morning and then shutting down the watchtowers in the evening with the LBRP is not advised.
Your thoughts on this?
Thank you.
I quit doing the SRP over twenty years ago when I stopped doing Golden Dawn Enochian and switched to the methods that I cover in my books. So I would not say I am an authority on it.
In my opinion the SRP is relevant only when you are specifically doing Golden Dawn Enochian magick. Combining the Enochian names with the Qabalistic Hebrew names sets up links between the names that govern both systems.
Also note - the SIRP is not a souped-up LRP. It's a souped-up GRP. And the GRP is also not a souped-up LRP. The LRP is a general/foundational ritual and the GRP/SRP are specific rituals. The version of the GRP that uses all four elements is specifically attributed to Malkuth, which in the Thelemic system maps to the vision of the Holy Guardian angel.
That's what the four-element GRP is for. It can be used as part of daily practice if you are explicitly doing HGA work, but it's not even remotely similar to the LRP in terms of what it does. You should not substitute one for the other.
I suspect the same is probably true for the SRP, though I haven't used it in a long time.
Scott, I apologize if this has been asked or answered somewhere else, I read through the previous four hundred posts but I may have missed it. My question is this:
In your experience, how long do the Enochian angels take to complete a task? In other words, do they cause probability shifts immediately most of the time, or do they usually take days, weeks, or months? Do you usually try to give them a set amount of time to complete a task?
It depends on the angel and the task. I always give spirits, Enochian and otherwise, a time limit to complete a task. If you don't do that, your spell runs forever until it succeeds. During that time, it will continue to draw on your available magical power.
So always give time limits. I find that month is generally sufficient - if your charge isn't going to happen in a month, the probability gradient is probably steeper than you calculated. It's easy to be off, since in the real world probabilities are not entirely cut and dried.
One point about using a month (or, more precisely, 28 days) is that it represent a complete lunar cycle through the zodiac. So that means the Moon - the final dispositor of astrological energy - will make all possible aspects within that timeframe.
I would say that the fastest I've seen spirits accomplish charges is within a day or two. I'm not sure how fast you mean by "immediate," but that's pretty unusual. They may very set the probability shift in motion that quickly, but just about everything takes some amount of time to manifest.
Excellent answer, thanks!
Mr. Stenwick, I have a question about the "Kerubic" and "Lesser" angels of the Great Table.
You've found that the Heptarchic Kings and Princes and the Great Table Kings and Seniors have probability shift S-levels of at least 100. For those of you who haven't purchased his books yet, this means they are capable of producing probability shifts of at least 100 to 1.
I would assume the Kerubic and Lesser angels are capable of producing lower probability shifts than that. I know it's not a scientific measurement, but from your years of results, what range might you assign to those angels in terms of the probability shifts they are capable of producing?
I would say that they are closer than you might think - at least 80ish for the group. That is based on a theoretical maximum, though. Many other factors can come into play, such as astrology. That is true for Kings, Princes, and Seniors as well.
@Scott, any news of further enochian books in the pipeline?
Believe me, there will be a post here on Augoeides when I have a book update. Regular readers will be the first to know.
1. Do you believe that magick with results can only be achieved by certain gifted individuals or can anyone do it with enough practice?
2. Do you have to reconsecrate your table if you ever move it or handle it regularly? Is consecration even necessary?
3. When is your third book going to launch?
4. Are the Angels nitpicky about cluttered spaces, say if I were to perform a ritual in a storage unit where I keep other things and would this affect results? Or does it not matter as long as it's organized?
5. How would you compare results from performing a ritual with only prayer and the keys like the option in your book as opposed to using the pentagram rituals and so forth? Does one method work better?
Thank you in advance for the answers. 😊
Nevermind on the question about the book. It would've helped to the bottom. 🤣
1. The simplest answer there is no, because like all human skills the ability to work magick is a combination of aptitude and practice. I think anyone can learn to do it if they work at it, and if they do not happen to have a lot of natural talent, employ workarounds and so forth. Some people are more talented than others, though, and can get better results with less work.
2. There are no special consecration rituals for any of the tools in the Dee/Kelley material. I don't do any special reconsecrations when I work with them. I just do the rituals themselves.
3. As soon as possible, with what my publisher needs to get done.
4. I've never seen them care about things like that, ever. I've done rituals in a lot of different spaces, some smaller and more cluttered than others.
5. You can probability test, but it's kind of painstaking to get a decent sample size. It definitely took me awhile. I found that the pentagram and hexagram rituals seem to result in stronger operations than just using the prayers, at least for me, which is why I include them in my books. If everything worked better without the ceremonial forms I wouldn't have bothered to put them in my template.
That being said, I would recommend that you try out both versions and see for yourself. My preference for pentagram/hexagram in addition to the prayers could be an individual difference specific to me, or a difference specific to my being a student of Thelemic magick, or something else entirely. Without a lot more experimentation it's hard to say for sure.
I've read two of your books and seen the course with Jason and Aaron and have a question. Both other authors discuss preliminary fasting, bathing etc. In the case of Aaron for as much as 9 days. What is your opinion and approach in this matter? Thanks for writing and inspiring me!
It is important to note that neither of those practices is specifically mentioned in the Dee diaries. So I would say that means they are not strictly necessary from the standpoint of the magick itself.
You want to feel clean when you're doing a ritual, so bathing is useful in that sense. Fasting has never done anything for me from a magical perspective so I don't do it, but if it's a practice that works for you that's fine. My first rule of magick is if it works, it works. That being said, I don't see it as a necessity and neither did the angels who communicated the Enochian system to Dee and Kelley.
@Scott, would it be possible to use the enochian system as a mystical way of expanding consciousness; and if so what would be the most effective way of doing this?
Sure. One of the most famous examples is Aleister Crowley's account of working through the thirty aires, documented in The Vision and the Voice. He outlines the whole procedure for doing that with the visions he received and commentary on them.
Many of the Enochian entities throughout the system, not just from the aires, can teach all sorts of information. So you could employ them for learning and expanding your consciousness that way.
I focus on practical magick with Enochian, in fact, because many authors present it as a mostly mystical system. But the practical component is important too, and it often gets neglected.
1. I found a syllable by syllable pronunciation for all 19 calls and I wanted your input on whether or not it was correct. Or at the very least, close enough. For example, would OL SONF VORSG be pronounced oh-el so-nu-ef voh-rah-sah-geh?
2. I recently bought a custom laser etched wooden SDA, 9 inches with the AGLA cross. A lot of people in a study group seem to believe wood would not be effective due to it not being an electret and therefore not blocking the geo field produced during an operation. What are your thoughts on this geo field and how relevant do you think it is to physical results? Thank you.
1. That would be a version of the Golden Dawn pronunciation method, which I personally don't use and has no foundation at all in the Dee diaries. Dee's pronunciation notes show that OL SONF VORSG is basically pronounced the way it looks. You can see the original British Museum scans with Dee's notes here:
https://phergoph.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/48claves.pdf
It shows no special notation for those words. I use a long O sound for all the vowels and just say the words. Yes, it takes a little practice. VORSG incorporates the RSG sound which is not common to English speakers. You say it like VORSK except you raise your tongue higher than you would for the K sound.
That being said - if you are looking to do specifically Golden Dawn magick you might decide that you want to go with their pronunciation system. Most Enochian magicians are abandoning it these days, but there were GD magicians who did it that way back in the day and they reported good results.
2. I've use a wood sigillum for evocations and it works fine. When I presented on Heptarchial Evocation at the National OTO Convention, I made a wood version as part of my "traveling setup." I figured the wax would be damaged too easily. The ritual I did went fine and I didn't have any issues with it.
I'm not sure what you mean by "geo field" so I guess it's not something I worry about.
Hello good! I've had a few questions about the Great table. Could you answer me? Thanks.
1. The ORO IBA AOZPI quadrant is fire and is it east (red color)? I ask because I've always been into the classic golden dawn directions and my mind is opening up to these changes. That is, to work Enochian is in the order of density, fire, air, water and earth.
2. To break magic or spells. I understand that a good way would be to use fire (The ORO IBA AOZPI table) and the lower right subquadrant (angels of transformation)?
3. And to protect oneself, the earth element would be used and the subquadrant is not clear to me.
Thank you very much for all the help on the blog ;)
1. Yes, according to the arrangement that I propose in Mastering the Thirty Aires. But keep in mind that there are other possible interpretations. This just happens to be the one I work with.
2. The angels of transformation can break spells, but the correct way to conjure them according to Dee is to call on the angels of the lower right subquadrant of all four tablets, each to the corresponding direction. I can tell you from experience that calling on only one quadrant out of the four is far less effective than the full set, no matter what direction you use. This is a general rule, for the most part - Dee's Watchtower conjurations always include all four directions for the various sets of angels.
3. Interestingly enough, general protection does not seem to be one of the powers that can easily be translated from the Watchtower subquadrants. You could call on the Seniors, who rule knowledge and judgment in human affairs, to make enemies decide not to attack you. You can call on the angels of transformation to transform magical attacks into something positive, like energy you can use to power spells. You can call on the angels of transportation to keep you safe on journeys. But there doesn't seem to be a set of powers that are just for "protection." Many of the powers can be used in protective ways, but you have to be a little more specific about how you want to be protected and what you want to be protected from.
Thank you very much for this blog ;)
When working with heptarchy, are banners necessary?
For the work of the great table I use the 4 watchtowers as banners.
In the heptarchy, is it necessary to have the banners/the 4 watchtowers?
Thank you very much.
Hello good. The Enochian talismans that you mention. Are they just to step on the ground during the rite (feet on the talisman)? o After the rite, do I have to wear the talisman?
Thank you very much.
The banners do not show up until the Watchtower material, which is later than the Heptarchia. So I would say that they are not necessary for Heptarchial work. They won't hurt anything, so you can still do Heptarchial work with them set up in your Enochian temple. But they are not related to the Heptarchia at all.
The "talismans" are really more like sigils for the spirits. I only use the term because Dee does. In the sixteenth century, the division between spirit emblems and talismans was not as precise as how we use the terms today. So Enochian "talismans" are just used in the conjuration - they don't hold magical energy or cause effects on their own. You just stand on them, you don't need to wear them.
Hello!
For magical/psychic defense, what would be better king or prince of Mars? Thanks.
I would say Prince, especially if you wanted to send any psychic attack back to the caster.
Dear Scott,
1) Do you have a preference for working with the Heptarchy or Great Table? Have you discovered difference in probability shifts between these two?
2) Do you still work with Qabalistic Angels of the Planets or Sephiroth(vs Enochian)? If so why and what do you prefer for what kind of operations?
3) Your books made me realize I've focused almost all my attention to mystical endeavors and my manifest life is suffering a bit because of that. I'm now mainly working on health and business success. How would you frame a good charge/induction for healing low back pain, and/or improved and well balanced immunity? What sets of angels would you recommend?
Thank you so much for your inspiration and kind sharing of your knowledge here and in your books!
1. Not so much as far as overall probability shifts go. Depending on the operation, a Heptarchial or Great Table spirit might be the most appropriate. Generally in the Enochian system the most powerful spirits have longer names, so you can look at it that way to some extent. But some of the angels with shorter names (like, say, the angels of medicine) are summoned in larger groups, so that mediates the effect to some extent because you have more total spirits on the job, so to speak.
2. Yes, I still work with the Qabalistic angels. Again, it depends on the operation. You want to match the powers of the entities you are working with as closely as possible to what you are trying to do. For example, I do list the standard planetary powers along with the given powers for the Heptarchial angels, and they can do things related to those powers. But a lot of the time going with Angel/Intelligence/Spirit from the Qabalistic system will work better than a Heptarchial working on the same effect if it's a classical power and not a power directly attributed in the diaries.
3. The angels of medicine from the Great Table are the most appropriate for health and healing if you want to go with Enochian. With the Qabalistic system, you would be looking at angel/intelligence/spirit of Mercury.
For the charge, you can generally phrase it as good health, recovery from injury, freedom from pain, stuff like that. You will want to include a limitation that it accomplish this without causing or exacerbating any additional health problems or issues. If you don't, you can sometimes get a result where the symptoms get worse to the point where need medical attention - and then the medical attention is what fixes the problem. That's never a fun way to get better, so excluding it from the spell is usually a good idea.
Thank you for the quick and in depth reply!
Hi Scott! Would you say that the Enochian language is (like the Hebrew) containers of energy and the way to get the energy out is vibration? If so, I don't think the PELE ring and preparing the temple are necessary to make the sequence of LRP, LIRH and MP in the Enochian version you propose.
Another different thing is the invocation that we have to deal with entities and we would need authority (Ring, lamen, etc).
Please tell me if I am correct.
The angels told Dee explicitly that without the ring he would "accomplish nothing." As I see it, there is not a logical inference out there that is strong enough to contradict what to me sounds like a direct instruction.
But as far as practice goes, I do think that you can do practices like my Enochian rituals without it as long as you aren't actually conjuring a spirit - but I never do a conjuration without the ring. I see it as directly related to spiritual authority in the system. Having the ring basically shows the spirits that you know what you're doing. The lamen is helpful in that regard too.
I don't actually think that the Hebrew or Enochian languages are special "containers of energy" whereas other languages aren't. Hebrew is advantageous just because there's a huge body of esoteric lore related to it that was developed over the centuries based on the (I think erroneous) assumption that it was special and magical because it was the original language of the Bible. That deep history of techniques and practices is why you use it.
And in Angelic (Enochian), you basically see the opposite. Here is a language that is entirely specialized to a single system of magick that comes from one specific source/set of operations. You use it specifically with the system that is was developed in association with.
Hello good morning Scott ;)
I have recently read a post of yours about "Arcana Enochian Incantations". I found it very interesting. However, I have a doubt, in an easy way and forgive my ignorance, what would be the advantage of using a spell in Enochian and not using it in Hebrew or the mother tongue?
Thank you very much.
Hello, good morning Scott.
The talismans in your Enochian books I understand are like sigils where we have to stand on them, but if I want the Enochian spell to go ahead with a talisman (amulet) what can I use? A normal talisman (with the proper correspondences) or use for example a Solomon's talisman, correct?
Can the talisman-sigil be used as a "talisman", once the entire rite is finished and ask for the consecration of the "talisman-sigil"?
Thank you very much.
The talisman-sigils are only called talismans in my books because that was the term Dee used. They only serve to help conjure the spirits, they don't hold magical powers for practical operations or anything like that.
To create a talisman-talisman in the modern sense, you want to find an object that has some affinity with the force you are conjuring. So if you're trying to do something with Jupiter, for example, an amethyst stone would be a good choice. You place that object on top of the Sigillum Dei Aemeth, conjure the spirits (using the talisman-sigil), and charge the spirit to empower the talisman to do what you want it to do.
Hi Scott. Would it be possible through the Enochian to resurrect a pet buried about 3 days ago? (In Abramelin's magic there is a spell to resurrect a person.) What do you say? Have you ever seen anything like this? Thanks a lot!
I have never seen any magick, Enochian or otherwise, resurrect a person or animal. My guess is that the spell from Abramelin is actually a powerful healing spell and the only way it would have worked is on someone who was incorrectly pronounced dead. That hardly ever happens today with modern medical technology.
Something like that would probably fall under the angels of medicine but I don't see it being workable, especially after three days.
Hello, I try to experience and induce Astral Projections since more than 8 years now. I am very spiritual, so the purpose is to use this for inner growth, meeting spiritual teachers and such. I think I’m not a „beginner“ any more, as I am deep into hermeticism and other occult topics (teachings of Bardon etc.) for several years now.
The only issue I have is the missing practical experience, the real knowledge and contact with the non-physical world.
Even after these years of study and daily meditation practice and still have no „proof“ that the non-physical really exists, so to say.
My question is, therefore: does it make sense to work with enochian magic, in order to ask for help to experience Astral Projections?
Thanks!
There are Enochian entities that can help with that. Depending how you interpret the diaries, the Angels of Transportation could help with astral movement from place to place. The Angels of Transformation are pretty generic - you can call on them to transform many things, including your own abilities. The Watchtower Kings are also generically powerful and when conjured together can accomplish a wide variety of things.
Hi Scott. Could a spell be done in Enochian like that?
Simply with the great table of the element (the big one with the 4 and the one of union) and recite the following:
1. The supreme name of the element "x" from the tablet of union
2. The three great secret names of God of the elemental tablet of "x".
3. The name of the king of the elemental tablet of "x".
4. The names of the six planetary seniors of the elemental table "x".
5. The first god name of "x" subangle.
6. The second god name of the "x" subangle
7. The name of our target servant angel.
Then I give the license to leave.
I clarify that it is a spell, not a ceremonial ritual. There is no intention of looking through the crystal ball, it's just a little spell reciting the sequence above. That's why I ask if for a simple spell it would be correct. Another thing would be the ring, lamen, sigilum dei Aemeth, etc. in a ceremonial ritual. What do you think?
Thank you very much.
You can sort of do something like that, but not quite how you lay it out here.
The element names from the Tablet of Union are not part of the hierarchy.
2, 3, and 4 are in a sequence you could use.
5, 6, and 7 are also in a sequence you could use, but they aren't in the same hierarchy as 2, 3, and 4.
And anyway, there's no need to work all the way down from the top like this. You call on Kings using the three names of God and Seniors using the name of the King. Servant angels are called using the subangle godnames, which you do have here. But again, you don't need anything preceding those godnames.
Also, you will want to include your charge prior to your license to depart. Otherwise this isn't going to do much.
As for the ring, lamen, and so forth, they help everything work better but it is still possible to get results with a setup that isn't entirely complete.
Hello!!! If I want to write in Enochian "YOLCAM". Would it be written with the Enochian characters (the Enochian letters) from left to right? Or from right to left like Hebrew?
Thank you and happy new year.
All the best ;)
There is no real consensus on that. There are some examples of words in Liber Loagaeth being written right to left. But names from the Heptarchial Wheel are left to right. Names on the Great Table appear left to right, right to left, up to down, and down to up. The Aire names are written left to right in Dee's diagrams. The names of the Parts of the Earth can go in any direction and usually include diagonals and the like.
We also don't know if the original intent was for the language of the Keys (words like Yolcam) to be the same as that of Liber Loagaeth or different. Computer analysis shows that the Loagaeth language and the language of the Keys both have the structure of natural languages, but it is not clear that there is much overlap in terms of words. So it might or might not be intended as the same language, depending on how you read the diaries.
What's very clear is that it's not a simple either/or. There are examples of Enochian words being written in all directions throughout the diaries. Generally I write words from the Keys left to right for convenience, but having experimented with both left to right and right to left, it doesn't seem to make any difference that I can determine experimentally.
Hi, Scott!
I was wondering about the elemental assignments of the tablet of union.
You set them in your work (or model), in the order of the living creatures and elemental subangle (air, water, earth, fire) or in the order you had setuped in your Great Table, (fire, air, water, earth)?
Or do you swap the assignments that is usualy in the Golden Dawn, since Exarp is Air and East, and your East is Fire, so Exarp now is Fire, or Bitom will rule the East?
In the Diaries is there an atributtion for the Tablet of Union with respect of quadrants?
Sorry for the mess, but this is kind of intriguing.
I do not change the names for the elements. Exarp is Air, Hcoma is Water, Nanta is Earth, and Bitom is Fire in my system just like in all the others. Those do not change but the directions can, depending on your elemental directional arrangement.
The Tablet of Union, though, is not directly related to the quadrants in any way. The elemental attributions of the quadrants are secondary. The direction is primary. So if you were going to use the GD attributions in accordance with the diaries, you would use your tablets differently than the GD system lays out. Bataivah, as an example, is the King of the East, not explicitly the King of Air in the diaries.
That means that in theory, if you switched your elemental arrangement from winds to zodiac, Bataivah should stay in the east but shift to being King of Fire. If you wanted the colors to line up, you would replace your yellow Air Tablet with a red Fire Tablet that had all the same letters, just different colors. Obviously it isn't done this way, and that is one of the many issues on which the GD system contradicts how the diaries lay the attributions out.
You can map the elements to the directions in multiple ways, and as I said, I don't switch the names. In the winds arrangement Exarp would be attributed to east, in the zodiac arrangement it would be attributed to west, and if you match the directions I use with the quadrants it would go in the south.
Hi Scott!
I was wondering when it came to performing the Enochian rituals, we observe the days/hours for the Kings and Princes, but does it work like it does for the Planetary angels? Meaning...if the hour of Venus starts at 8:30 am and lasts until 9:15 am, I can technically start the ritual at 9:14am and still be within the Venutian hour....but with the Enochian rituals, does the CONJURATION of the King or Prince need to be within the hour, or does the ritual ITSELF need to be STARTED within the hour?
Let's say I do a conjuration for the Prince of Venus...it has to be done on a Friday within the hour of the Moon...if I start the ritual well within that hour, but the actual CONJURATION of the Prince doesn't start until I'm a little ways into the hour of Saturn, is the whole thing a bust and I need to try again?
Thanks!
If you look in the diaries, what you will find is that the King and Prince rule for the whole day. The day is divided up among the Ministers, but you do not need to conjure them directly. They just are supposed to show up with the King and Prince. So technically, as long as you're working on a Friday you shouldn't need to think about the hours at all.
That being said, I generally do use planetary hours when I work with the Heptarchia if it's convenient to do so. I do that using the same method as my other planetary operations, so that means I look at the start time and don't worry about the conjuration time. Even if I start in the last minute of the Hour of Venus, the operation is still attributed to Venus as far as I'm concerned.
So why would Enochian work better for you and others over hermetic kabbalah? Is it because Enochian was received directly from the angels?
Maybe. I honestly have no verifiable idea what the reason might be. I just know the results of probability tests over the years, and when I do those tests Enochian tends to be the most powerful and effective. It could be because it came directly from the angels. It could also be that the Enochian entities themselves are more powerful in some significant way. Or it could be something completely different than either of those.
Most of your articles are written about the hermetic system and yet it's Enochian that works best for you - and others too because I've not seen anyone give up on the Enochian system after taking it up. I met a Golden Dawn fellow who told me that he doesn't work much with the Hermetic system thanks to Enochian. His elemental angels are EXARP, HCOMA, NANTA, and BITOM. This, I found, was not the way Dee intended his system to work. He never believed in the 4 elements, he believed in the 4 corners of the Earth but the Golden Dawn took it and came up with an elemental system. Well the person told me he does his elemental work both ways but still prefers Exarp, hcoma etc more. But these 4 names were never in Dee's system, they were derived from it.
So do you do Enochian elemental magick this way or is there a Dee-purist way of doing that?
And I know that you work most with the planetary system, but is the Enochian zodiacal work just as good as its planetary system or do you prefer the Hermetic one?
Most of these questions are answered in my Mastering Enochian Magick series.
Exarp, Hcoma, Nanta, and Bitom are not Golden Dawn inventions. They are the names of the four elements in the Dee diaries as well as in the Golden Dawn system. They appear on the black cross in the original version of the Great Table.
There is a vision called the Round House vision in the diaries that shows Dee probably did attribute the quadrants of the Great Table - the castles or watchtowers - to the elements. He just treated them as secondary attributions, with the directions primary. He also didn't attribute them the same way the Golden Dawn did.
So the Enochian magick of the Great Table is the elemental component of the Enochian system. The Heptarchia Mystica is planetary and the Thirty Aires are zodiacal.
That's why my series is divided up the way it is - Mastering the Mystical Heptarchy - Planetary, Mastering the Great Table - Elemental, and Mastering the Thirty Aires - Zodiacal. I lay these methods out in the books.
There is a lot of nuance in terms of which system is better for specific things. The Enochian system is designed to be used in certain ways that the Golden Dawn largely disregarded. The Zodiacal system, for example, is first and foremost for political operations involving the Parts of the Earth. For that it's the best system I've ever come across.
When using the Zodiacal angels of the Aires for Hermetic zodiacal powers I would say they are probably about on par. But for example, I would use a Thirty Aires operation over a Jupiter operation for anything political.
I see now. The Great Table is the source for Enochian elemental magick but it seems I would have to read into that. In it, there are kerubic angels, kings and seniors, cacodemons, lesser angels etc.
So only the Enochian zodiacal hierarchy has been found more effective than the hermetic planetary hierarchy but only in the context of political magick. Perhaps this is also because of the comparison between planetary and zodiacal operations in general; the zodiacal ops will upstage planetary ops because of them being slower but more effective. RIP Hermetic zodiacal and planetary angels.
I would also like to say a few things about Enochian magick based on what I have seen in the magickal community.
Enochian magick is not preferred over hermetic and neopagan magick because of a lack of sources and popularity. Planetary material is highly accessible whereas Enochian magick was just one late Rennaissance guy named John Dee's private sessions with a skryer so it will always be sidestepped, I feel.
Hi Scott,
Thank you for your blog and your work.
I'm attempting to work the Enochian System but I must admit it is initially very confusing!
My main question is regarding the planetary attributions, The King of the Sun is Attributed to a Prince of Venus which I can't wrap my head around. My question is when conjuring the Enochian Entities, is it supposed to be done like it is in traditional planetary magic, for example if I wanted to work with Michael, I would first conjure Michael then ask Michael to bring the intelligence of the Sun then ask the intelligence to bring the Spirit. Are enochian entities supposed to be conjured in the same way where you conjure the King of the Sun to bring the Prince to Bring the Ministers, if this is the case how would that work because they all have different hours! My thoughts are that it's not supposed to work that way and the entities are supposed to be conjured separately if this is true, when I'm working from a standpoint of pure planetary attributions (not the other attributions they are given) what difference does it make if I conjure the King, Prince or Ministers, is one better for material things then the other? Or I'm I wrong and you are supposed to work with the King, Prince and Ministers in one ritual?
Also can enochian kings be used to conjure Goetic spirits instead of the traditional archangels?
Sorry for the amount of question. I hope to hear from you soon.
Kind Regards
The shifting planetary attributions between the Kings and Princes in the Heptarchia is not really something you wrap your head around - it just is. That's how the system was delivered. Since the King and Prince are both attributed to the day, how I do it is that I conjure both the King and Prince for Sunday on Sunday, but the King in the hour of the Sun and the Prince in the hour of Venus.
You don't call on Michael or any of the traditional planetary angels when conjuring Enochian entities. You just conjure them by name. They have their own hierarchy that is different from the planetary work in Agrippa. With the Heptarchia you get the Prince and Ministers along with the King when you conjure the King, and when you conjure the Prince you get the ministers. Conjuring the ministers directly doesn't seem to be a thing according to the 1588 Heptarchia that Dee arranged himself.
Kings are better for knowing things and learning things, kind of like an intelligence. Princes are better for doing things, like spirits. The ministers work with both, but again, you don't conjure them directly.
Enochian and Goetia have nothing to do with each other, so I wouldn't personally try mixing them. They are completely different and unrelated systems.
Thank you. Are you aware of Ordines Descendens? If you are, do you have an opinion of the work?
I have heard a bit about it, but I am not very familiar with it. From what I know, it sounds like yet another attempt to syncretize "angelic" and "demonic" material by combining Enochian with other grimoire elements. The first attempt at this that I know of can be found in Rudd's "Treatise on Angel Magic" from 1700. That's where the Enochian Ensigns of Creation with Goetic demon names added comes from.
The "Treatise," which I'm more familiar with, is a spurious work that has nothing to do with Dee's Enochian. The system of the Goetia is from the mid-1600s, decades after Dee's death. Goetia and Enochian literally have nothing to do with each other. I'm an expert on the first and nowhere near an expert on the latter, as I've previously mentioned.
Dee was practically allergic to anything demonic if you read his diaries. He doesn't even include conjurations for the cacodemons, the demons particular to the Enochian system. So it seems to me that he would never have assembled a text pulling in demons from other sources when he was unwilling to do anything with the actual Enochian cacodemon material.
I could be wrong, though. I'm pretty confident in my opinion of the "Treatise," having studied it, but I only know of the "Ordines Descendens" in passing.
So with Ordines Descendens, the demonic names are derived in reverse manner to how the angelic names are derived on the tables. It probably wasn't written by dee but the way the demons are derived to me sounds logical and could be "legit" demonic spirits. I'm yet to experiment though
Which is kind of odd, really, given that the actual way you derive demon names from the table is to combine the black cross letter with the two halves of the "lesser angel" names to get two three-letter cacodemon names for each "lesser angel." That method is already in the diaries. You do reverse the "calvary cross" names when calling them, though.
At any rate, I'm always a fan of experimentation. More magicians need to be doing that, and making their results available.
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