Monday, November 14, 2016

The Planetary Work - Saturn

This article is Part One in a series.

Over the years, I've posted a number of articles on planetary magick. After putting together the elemental work series, it seems to me that the time is right to put together a new set of these rituals reflecting some updates in my methodology. I have been able to refer people who ask questions to the older rituals, but sometimes that prompts more questions about why things are done as they are when I abandoned them years ago. So what I am writing up now is the planetary work the way I currently perform it. This article may be considered an updated version of this one, which is how I was working with Saturn ten years ago.

As just one example, I used to think it was a lot more important to work through the entire spiritual hierarchy to "get to" the spirit you wanted to work with. What I've found in practice, though, is that it works just as well to conjure the spirit you want using the overall godname - for the most part. The one exception is that with an Agrippa planetary spirit, you do need to conjure the corresponding intelligence in order to get the best results. Even there, though, you can also just conjure the planetary angel and basically delegate the work. This turns out to work about as well as digging into the Intelligences and Spirits, and it is simpler because you only have to conjure a single entity.

To start off, the planetary work as presented here is the essence of the most popular practical magical operations. Jupiter and the Sun correspond to status, wealth, and prosperity. Venus corresponds to love, and Mercury corresponds to healing. Saturn and Mars correspond to both cursing and magical protection. And finally, the Moon corresponds to clairvoyance, dreamwork, and psychic perception. As a magick blogger, I find that the vast majority of people writing me for spells want something in one of those areas, and it's really no surprise. That list includes most of what magick is famous for, and the kinds of powers that most people really want.

In Qabalah, the planets correspond to the double letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The letters are so named because they correspond to two specific sounds each, and this is reflected in the dual nature of the planets. On the Tree of Life, each planet corresponds to both a sephira or a path. Many magicians refer to the sephiroth as "spheres," and you may catch me doing that sometimes as well. It is, however, not a direct translation. The word actually means "emanations" - as in, emanations of divinity. But they are drawn as circles on most diagrams of the Tree of Life, and in addition, "sephira" and "sphere" sound very similar in English.

The important thing to understand about this for practical magick is that the sephira represent states of emanation, while the paths represent movement between them. Invoking the emanations themselves produces particular visions and states of consciousness, and invoking the paths produces particular practical effects. In Liber 777, the paths and sephira have separate sets of colors, separate angels, and even separate godnames. It is relatively common for people working practical magick to ignore these factors, and, say, conjure the angel of a sephira rather than a path. Often said angel is smart enough to figure out what you really want, but it works better if you go for the right aspect from the start. If you review my older article, you can see that back then I wasn't making this distinction. Adding it has helped my work immensely.

For this series, I will be starting out with Saturn and working down the Tree of Life, following what is called the Chaldean Order. As the elemental series ascended the elements in density order, this one will descend according to the relative astrological motion of each planet, from slowest (Saturn) to fastest (The Moon). Note that the ancient system does not include the outer planets in this schema, so I will not be covering them as part of this series. The sevenfold division is found throughout the magical tradition, and it works just fine as it is.

This series will be covering the paths, as they correspond to practical magical operations. I will be putting together a series that deals with the sephira once I have covered the practical work. This is by design - some schools teach that you should master a bunch of mystical stuff before you start casting effective spells, and I just don't buy that. You should use magick for basically everything, and you should start doing it right away. Studying the differences between successes and failures will give you essential insights into the nature of your will and the quality of your technique, and besides, doing effective practical magick is awesome.

According to Liber 777, the path of Saturn corresponds to "Works of Malediction and Death." That is, cursing. Saturn is referred to as the "Greater Malefic" in traditional astrology, so this matches its nature well. But an important point here for the beginning magician who doesn't necessarily care about casting curses is that Saturn rules works of malediction and death. So not only can you call upon Saturn to curse someone, you can call upon the planet to protect you from such operations, and to keep you safe from threats to your life.

This principle holds true with the other planets as well - they can be employed in both positive and negative ways according to their sphere of influence. Mercury, for example, rules healing, but the angel of Mercury could also be employed to negatively affect a target's health. As another example, Venus rules love, but the angel of Venus could also be employed to break up a romantic relationship, or to protect and existing relationship from such influence. And so forth.

So it is not the case, as I thought when I was starting in on this that, say, you would banish Saturn in order to protect yourself from curses and only invoke if you were casting one. This can kind of work, but as the banishing itself is momentary rather than persistant, it doesn't work all that well. You are much better off conjuring the angel of Saturn and giving a charge related to protection from curses. Then the angel can keep the effect going over time, and basically keep watching out for you, holding any subsequent curses at bay.

For the Path of Saturn, the four scales of color are Indigo, Black, Blue Black, and Black Rayed Blue. For ceremonial forms, you use the King scale, which is Indigo. Its complement is pale yellow. All four scales should be used to construct the sigil of the angel. The first piece of sigil is the character of Saturn, which looks like this:

The angel of the path of Saturn is Cassiel, spelled Kaph-Shin-Yod-Aleph-Lamed. The Saturn kamea is 3 x 3, so these letters all need to be reduced to single digits. This yields 2 (20), 3 (300), 1 (10), 1, and 3 (30), to produce a sigil on the kamea that looks like this:

Note that some sources teach the spelling Cassiel as Kaph-Samekh-Yod-Aleph-Lamed. I don't know why this differs from the text of Liber 777, my main source for magical operations. It is possible that Aleister Crowley changed the spelling, or that one is a corruption of the other. With Samekh, you get 2 (20), 6 (60), 1 (10), 1, and 3 (30). That sigil would look like this:

As you can see, a single letter change can result in a very different-looking symbol. I use the Shin spelling in my own work, but at the same time, I'm all about experimentation. If you're curious, feel free to try both and see which one works best for you.

The final sigil is created by combining the two figures, shown here using the Shin spelling. The grid is not necessary, but I have still included it here to show the geometry. There is no formal method for determining which color goes where on the sigil, but it should include all four scales so that it will span all four Qabalistic worlds and thus constitute a complete symbol. This is largely left to your own ingenuity.

From Liber 777, incenses appropriate to Saturn are Assofoetida, Scammony, Indigo, Sulphur, and "all evil odors." Associated plants are Ash, Cypress, Yew, Nightshade, and Elm. The associated metal is lead, and the associated precious stone is onyx.

The plants may be dried and ground into a powder using a mortar and pestle and can be sprinkled onto the paper talisman as an offering to the angel. You can do the same with assofoetida, which in powdered form is a spice. Likewise, a piece of lead or onyx may be placed on top of the paper talisman for the conjuration. You then use the paper to wrap up the whole thing when the ritual is complete and somehow bind or tape it together.

The god-name in Assiah for the path of Saturn is AB (Aleph-Beth). It is far more common for Saturn operations to be taught using YHVH Elohim as the god-name for Saturn, but this is actually the god-name appropriate to Binah, the sephira of Saturn. This is a key distinction that few teachers make, and is a method that we have explored at the local Leaping Laughter Lodge Ritual Workshop. It appears to be quite effective, and allows you to make a meaningful distinction between sephiroth and paths in the context of the ceremonial forms.

The full ritual is performed as follows:

0. The Temple

The best time to perform a Saturn operation is on a Saturday, during the hour of Saturn. To calculate the hours, divide the time between sunrise and sunset into twelve equal parts to get the hours of the day, and the time between sunset and sunrise into twelve equal parts to get the hours of the night. Days begin at sunrise. The first hour of the day is attributed to the planet ruling the day, and the subsequent hours are assigned according to the Chaldean Order.

Saturn --> Jupiter --> Mars --> Sun --> Venus --> Mercury --> Moon

Following the hour of the Moon, the order starts over again with Saturn. While it seems complicated as first, once you do it a bunch, you'll find that it actually is pretty easy. At this point I can almost do it in my head. There are also a number of software programs that you can download to do the calculation for you, and even some websites that will tell you the hours.

There are a number of different ways to arrange the temple for an operation such as this. What we do is place an altar in the center with the banishing dagger and invoking wand. Also on the altar is a containment structure such as the Sigillum Dei Aemeth or the Trithemian Table of Art. The diagram depicting the character and sigil should be placed within this structure. A small container of some sort for offerings may be placed on the Table of Art, or you can sprinkle the offering directly upon the diagram itself.

If you employ scrying in your work, an appropriate device such as a crystal or mirror should also be placed in the containment structure. If you are using incense for such an operation, the traditional method is to place the incense burner between the scryer and the mirror or crystal. Otherwise, it may be placed anywhere in the space. Some scryers like to place a taper candle on either side of the device, and while I can't say that method does anything at all for me, a number of others report good results with it.

1. Opening

Light incense, if used. Open the magical field using the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and Lesser Ritual of the Hexagram, Star Ruby and Star Sapphire, or the Field Ritual. The usual field for practical work is the operant field, with banishing pentagrams and invoking hexagrams.

2. Preliminary Invocation

Raise energy using the Middle Pillar, Elevenfold Seal (the "First Gesture" from Liber V vel Reguli), or some other appropriate ritual method as you may know how to do.

Make the Sign of Apophis and Typhon, raising both arms and holding them straight with an angle between them of 60 degrees, and proclaim, very strongly:

Thee I invoke, who art Universe!
Thee I invoke, who art in Nature formed!
Thee I invoke, the vast and the mighty!
Source of Darkness, Source of Light.

Then make the Sign of Silence, by standing straight with one arm at your side and placing your thumb or forefinger to your lips.

3. Tuning the Space

Perform the Greater Ritual of the Hexagram for Saturn. Beginning in the east, go to each quarter in turn and perform the following actions.

  1. 1. Trace the Hexagram of Saturn in indigo while vibrating ARARITA (ah-rah-ree-tah). The hexagram of Saturn is traced by starting at the top point and tracing the upright triangle clockwise, and then moving on to the bottom point and tracing the downward triangle clockwise.
  2. Trace the symbol of Saturn in the center of the hexagram in pale yellow while vibrating AB (ahb).
The final figure being traced to all four directions should look like this:

Once you return to face the east, hold your finger or wand pointing upwards and declare "Let the divine light descend!" as you bring it down to rest pointing at the sigil.

Then, recite the Orphic Hymn to Saturn. The use of the Orphic Hymns as planetary prayers is a technique that I picked up from Rufus Opus, who explains the method in detail in his excellent Seven Spheres.

Etherial father, mighty Titan, hear,
Great fire of Gods and men, whom all revere:
Endu'd with various council, pure and strong,
To whom perfection and decrease belong.
Consum'd by thee all forms that hourly die,
By thee restor'd, their former place supply;
The world immense in everlasting chains,
Strong and ineffable thy pow'r contains
Father of vast eternity, divine,
O mighty Saturn, various speech is thine:
Blossom of earth and of the starry skies,
Husband of Rhea, and Prometheus wife.
Obstetric Nature, venerable root,
From which the various forms of being shoot;
No parts peculiar can thy pow'r enclose,
Diffus'd thro' all, from which the world arose,
O, best of beings, of a subtle mind,
Propitious hear to holy pray'rs inclin'd;
The sacred rites benevolent attend,
And grant a blameless life, a blessed end.

The space should now be tuned for the conjuration.

4. The Conjuration

O thou mighty angel CASSIEL, ruler of SHABBATAI, by the name of the True and Living God AB, I call upon you and ask that you along with the spirits of your domain manifest themselves unto me, for I am a true worshiper of the highest. Let them come forth in a friendly and peaceful manner that I may partake of the wisdom and the pure essence of Saturn, and that they may attend to my behest. AMEN.

At this point, vibrate the name CASSIEL repeatedly until the presence of the angel and spirits of Saturn is perceived within the Table of Art. Various methods may be used to accomplish this, from simply waiting until a presence makes itself known to scrying for an image in a crystal or dark mirror. If this is being performed as a group ritual, with everyone chanting the name together, it is helpful for the officiant or scryer to have a bell chime that can be rung once he or she perceives a presence in whatever manner. At the bell chime, the chant stops.

5. The Charge

My instructions for the charge are simple and straightforward, just as you can find in my published books. Make use of an Injunction, which is what you want the angel and associated spirits to do, and a Limitation, which is what you do not want them to do. The Limitation helps you avoid "Monkey's Paw" situations in which your Injunction may manifest, but in an undesirable way.

As I mentioned above, Liber 777 catalogs the powers attributed to the planet Saturn as "Works of Malediction and Death." For best results, your charge should fall within that area. Otherwise, you may be asking for something outside Saturn's sphere of influence, and that could cause the ritual to fail. Keep in mind that as Saturn rules this area, you can call upon Cassiel to protect you from such harm, not just to cast curses.

At this point you may also make offerings to the angel by placing them in the small container. After the angel has had a chance to partake of the offerings, be sure to dispose of them. Alcohol such as wine may be allowed to evaporate on its own, and natural substances may be scattered outdoors. Do not attempt to reuse an offering - generally speaking, spirits do not take kindly to that.

Your other option is to place the offerings directly upon the sigil itself, if this is practical, as it is with ground-up plant material or spices. If you decide to go this route, you will be wrapping the offering up in the paper sigil and need give it no further thought. Obviously, though, this becomes less practical with liquid offerings, such as alcohol.

Also, You should get some sort of assent from the angel before you proceed to the License to Depart, or an explanation of his objection. When the charge lies outside the angel's sphere of influence, often he will be willing to direct you to another spirit that would be more suitable to conjure in order to better accomplish your intent.

6. The License to Depart

Mighty CASSIEL and the spirits of Thy domain, because thou hast-diligently answered unto my demands, and hast been very ready and willing to come at my call, I do hereby license thee to depart unto thy proper place, without causing harm or danger unto man or beast. I charge thee to withdraw peaceably and quietly with the blessings of the great god AB, and that peace be ever continued between us. So mote it be!

7. Closing

The ritual may be closed with either a final banishing pentagram ritual or with the Qabalistic Cross performed on its own. These should match the rituals used in the opening, so for example if you opened with a Star Ruby you should repeat it or perform the corresponding version of the Qabalistic Cross.

Generally speaking, if you want to release your intent out into the world to accomplish some task external to yourself, you should close with a banishing pentagram ritual. This is similar to the chaos magick idea of releasing a sigil once it has been created and empowered.

On the other hand, if you also want the effect of the ritual to linger within your sphere of awareness, whether or not the intent is also external, you should close with the Qabalistic Cross. This stabilizes the operation, but does not detach it from your sphere of awareness.

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Dacia Pacea said...

Like i said of fb, Splendid!

About the sigil of the angel: can't we use the specific sigils for the planetary angels from Agrippa? Or were they meant to be used when working with the powers of the sphere, instead of the path? And for the path we should create the specific sigil using the corresponding planetary kamea.

Now that you mention RO, i've seen articles of his in which he detailed certain rituals. In those rituals he used the Agrippa's sigils for the planetary angels to call upon the archangels - in this case using Cassiel's sigil to call upon Tzaphkiel. I used Sachiel's sigil to call upon Tzadkiel in my own Jupiter workings and it worked for me.

Scott Stenwick said...

Sure, you could do that too. One of the things that I am trying to do with this series is put together a consistent methodology across the full traditional symbol set - elements, planets, and signs. But that does not mean the methods I propose here are the only way to do it, or the "right" way. Spirits can be linked to more than one sigil and can be conjured using various different methods.

There is some overlap between the sphere and path angels, but I am not sure whether they are different aspects of the same entity, or separate entities with closely related attributions. Either way, you can get to the path by accessing the sphere and vice-versa, but in my experience going directly for the one you want works a little better.

My bottom line is that if it works, it works. So try some of these different methods out and see for yourself which one works the best. Your results may differ from mine, since there's a lot of individual variation in magical operations.

Dacia Pacea said...

The way i see it, each sephira or sphere is its own world and the planet ruling it represents only a part of it. As a comparison, the sphere is like a country with its history, traditions, habits and so on, and the ruling planet represents the state governing that country, with its laws, law enforcement, and all the other branches of a government. This could be why there's a general misunderstanding between the uses of Raphael and Michael with the Sun and Mercury. As i see it, Raphael is the archangel of Tiphareth, but the angel of the Sun is Michael. Likewise, Raphael is the angel of Hod, but the archangel is Michael. They could represent different entities or different sides of the same entity, just like with Carmara and Blumaza, but like you said, the angel is clever enough to know what you want and lets you get the appropriate entity for that specific work.

That being said, it makes sense to produce the planetary angels' sigils from the specific kamea, in order to pinpoint the exact entity you're willing to work with for that purpose.

Scott Stenwick said...

I think with Raphael and Michael you are dealing with separate entities, based on my interactions with them. Their attributions for Mercury and Sun just switch depending on whether you are working path or sphere. If you keep that distinction in mind, there's no confusion at all - which is one of the advantages of using it.

I suppose that observation would support the idea that Tzaphkiel and Cassiel are likewise separate entities, rather than a single entity with two aspects - if we are assuming that on the spiritual level, everything is logical and orderly. We need our systems to be logical and orderly to do magick effectively, but that doesn't mean the underlying reality is necessarily as neat or sensible.

Dacia Pacea said...

You might be right. I'm also thinking there could be an archangel Raphael governing Tiphareth and a different angel also named Raphael being the angel of Mercury - the geomantic angel from 777. And with Michael it would be the same - archangel of Hod and a different angel of the Sun.

Scott Stenwick said...

That does not line up with my experience. As far as my interactions with them have gone, Raphael is Raphael and Michael is Michael. It just seems that they have different aspects depending on the context.

In fact, it could even be that this is the difference between an "archangel" and an "angel." Archangels can have multiple aspects, whereas regular angels cannot. In addition to the Sun/Mercury associations, Raphael corresponds to elemental air and Michael corresponds to elemental fire. Also Gabriel corresponds to both elemental water and the Moon.

Auriel seems to be the odd archangel out, though you could perhaps argue that as the archangel of elemental earth, Auriel's aspects span all four elements.

Dacia Pacea said...

"In fact, it could even be that this is the difference between an "archangel" and an "angel." Archangels can have multiple aspects, whereas regular angels cannot."

That seems fair. I totally got your point now. Thanks :D

Dacia Pacea said...

This would fit better in your other Saturn post, since you go through the entire hierarchy there.

Can one conjure the spirit of the geomes? I know that the planetary spirits rule over the corresponding geome(s), in this case Carcer and Tristitia, so I'm wondering if there geomes themselves are material representations of spirits.

Orion Silverstar said...

Thanks for that article Scott, very interesting in deed. Is Saturn the same as Azazel/Zazel, as the both share the same seal? Does it matter if these types of workings are done in the day or night? Thanks for you time.

Scott Stenwick said...

@Dacia: Gnomes are the servitors of the King of Earth, so are not really attributed to Saturn. The ritual you would use to summon them would be more like my Elemental Work -Earth ritual. When you conjure the King, you can call upon him to bring forth the Gnomes if you wish to work with them directly. Then, you can command them by the name of the King.

@Orion: First off, I'm not convinced that Zazel and Azazel are the same spirit.

But if you're talking about Zazel, the Spirit of Saturn, you could use a ritual similar to this one. Instead of conjuring the angel, you would conjure the Intelligence, Agiel, and then call upon Zazel by the name of the Intelligence. You can call upon the Intelligence on its own, but when conjuring the Spirit you must call upon them both. Otherwise you get a blind force which is difficult to manage, let alone command. You also need to draw the sigils of both upon the character of Saturn, rather than the sigil of the Angel.

According to the tradition, day hours and night hours both will work fine for magical operations. I have theorized that perhaps certain types of operations work better during the day, and others work better during the night, but I don't have much in the way of data to support that. The rituals I've done, regardless of intent, seem to work fine as long as the hour is correct and there's not much difference between my day versus night results.

Dacia Pacea said...

I think there was a misunderstanding. I meant geomes as in figures of geomancy, not gnomes :) Crowley even wrote a poem about them

I found that the planetary spirits rule over the corresponding geome, or geomes. In this case Zazel over Carcer and Tristitia. So I thought the geomes themselves could have a certain spirit behind them which could be conjured.

Scott Stenwick said...

Oh, okay. Sorry about that. As far as the signs of geomancy go, Crowley did define a list of geomantic intelligences, including the angels of the planets (such as Cassiel here). But I haven't done a lot of work with the geomantic signs in my personal practice.

It makes sense that a spirit or spirits would be attributed to them. Is the attribution for Zazel from your own work, or something that you found elsewhere?

Dacia Pacea said...

I think I found their attributions in Agrippa some time ago, or at least in an article that quoted from Agrippa. But I can't find it right now :( I only found this link and it looks like besides the geomes being ruled by the planetary spirits, they are also attributed genii, which are the corresponding geomantic intelligences of the zodiac signs.

I also found a few articles way back before I actually started practicing magick, in which the authors detailed the conjuration of geomes. I didn't understand any of that back then :))

Scott Stenwick said...

777 has a list of them too, but it associates Carcer with Capricorn and Tristitia with Aquarius. Both signs are ruled by Saturn, but relating them to the spirit of Saturn is a more indirect association than I would personally use.

Under that system, the geomantic intelligence of Carcer would be Hanael and the geomantic intelligence for Tristitia would be Cambriel. That's the method that I would use if I wanted to contact the spirit associated with a geome.

Once I get done with the planets, I'll be moving on to the zodiac - so those rituals will be showing up here once I get to that point.

Dacia Pacea said...

It does seem more appropriate for them to be associated with the geomagnetic intelligences of the zodiac signs rather than the spirits of the planets. It'll take some time before I'll begin experimenting with conjuring the geomes, but I'll share my findings then.

Beautiful series btw!

Dacia Pacea said...

I should have asked this in the first place, but i keep forgetting :)

Is it necessary to add the black circle of protection when casting curses with this updated style ritual? (I'm suspecting so)

Forgot to mention this before. Earlier this summer I did a series of Mars curses with Bartzabel - the target experienced a series of health issues but that's all, because I told the spirit not to go for the kill. I cast several curses because i had no link. Due to the small practice space, I had to construct a small black circle, enough for me to fit into it (about 4feet wide). I don't know whether I accidentally moved a part of my body outside the circle after calling down the spirit, or because the first time I called him I accidentally allowed the divine light to descend into my circle after the GIRH of Mars (Bartzabel was instructed to go into the triangle after I called Graphiel), but a few weeks later I burned my hand with boiling water.

It was nothing that couldn't be fixed with a little magick and some aloe ointment (the Moon really tempers down Mars also he he), but i got the message.

Scott Stenwick said...

The black circle is not for protection. It is to focus your mind upon the sphere of Saturn during your operation, and you can use it if you want with this ritual, but it is not necessary.

The piece you want for protection is the Table of Art, which contains the triangle. For a small space, I don't recommend trying to build a physical circle at all, as the dimensions make this challenging. As long as your target is within the triangle, you are shielded from any potential effects of casting a curse.

The magical forms themselves create a sort of "astral circle," and I have found that this usually is sufficient for just about any sort of operation. This isn't only a modern idea - Jake Stratton-Kent reports that visualized or astral circles have been used dating back to antiquity, and I trust his research.

Dacia Pacea said...

Oh, so I guess then my accident was the result of the energy of multiple Mars curses combined with working the path of Mars a few days apart.

Scott Stenwick said...

Or it was just a regular accident that had nothing to do with your operations. Those happen to magicians too, after all, and not all of them have anything to do with the magick we happen to be working at the time.

Dacia Pacea said...

I guess this is the best place for asking the following question, since Saturn has more chthonic attributes than other planets.

I have worked a few times with chthonic spirits, but mostly for my own benefit or for more curse related actions. Right now I'm thinking of experimenting with them to aid someone, due to their blunt approach to making the intent manifest - if they don't play tricks that is :)

The question is about the way I should use the link in the ritual. I don't think it's a good idea to place it outside the protected area so it would directly be subjected to those energies. I'm the other hand I think leaving the link inside the circle would diminish the chances for success. Any ideas?

Scott Stenwick said...

If you are using a containment structure, the link needs to go inside it so the spirit you are conjuring can interact with it. If you put it outside the Table of Art, your ritual will not work nearly as well.

The link creates a non-local connection to the target, and its presence in the containment structure allows the spirit to connect with the target through it. It doesn't make any difference whether you are casting a curse or a protective operation, the tech remains the same.

Dacia Pacea said...

You're right. I had to get over some latent misconceptions :) I will simply leave the link outside of the circle and call the spirit to apear before the circle, as in Jason Miller's Bune ritual. Thanks for clearing that for me!

Scott Stenwick said...

You should never just do that. Always use a containment structure. If you want to conjure a spirit outside the circle, you need to set up a triangle and so forth. Then you put your link inside the triangle into which you call the spirit.

Most of the time, though, I work with my containment structure inside the circle, in the center of my altar. I find that's easier to deal with, and I haven't had any issues even when working with cthonics in that way.

Dacia Pacea said...

So basically it's the same as a planetary ritual for instance, only the Operant Field would be followed by the conjuration of the spirit inside the triangle using the name of the corresponding angel and various other names of power. It makes sense! :D Thank you!

Dacia Pacea said...

I'm going to ask this one here, since I've already asked you about demons above.

Do you use the demon attributions to the signs according to 777 in your work? I'm only asking this because various sources attribute several demons to different signs.

I'm mostly going with the 777 attributions found here, but I wonder what would happen if somehow Crowley got some of them wrong and I end up conjuring them with names of power other than that of the sign, the angel of the decan and so on. I'm not concerned about my safety, but whether they would show up or not.

Scott Stenwick said...

I probably am not the best person to ask, since I rarely work with those attributions. If you try to conjure a spirit by the totally name, ceremonial form, and so forth, it won't show up. It's like tuning your radio to the wrong frequency.

I do know Goetic magicians who use those attributions and report good results. Those attributions come right out of the Lemegeton, and Kenneth Grant's whole Typhonian system is based on those attributions of the Qlippoth (from Liber 231). So I expect that they work, for what that's worth.

Dacia Pacea said...

I've had a few successes using these attributions. When I call one of them I do it by the permutation of the sign they're in, by the name of the angel ruling over them and i recently added the names of the angel of the specific decan, as well as the Egyptian name of the decan. They showed up so far, and they didn't seem annoyed by my method. I didn't threaten them and such, just simply asked them to show up inside the triangle using those specific names, after the Operant Field, Bornless One invocation and a call to my angel.

Thanks for the answer!

Javier Vera said...

Hi Dacia ¡¡

I love the method of poke runyon is the most consistent for me is direct, clear and extremely powerful very fast, that if I use the table trithemio instead of the formal triangle, In this case the idea of opening Yesod with the heptagram and then activating the appropriate sphere within that Tree is simply fantastic, in fact from that model you could work very intensely on the plane of Yesod

Scott Stenwick said...

My first rule is that if it works for you it works, so keep that in mind with respect to the following.

Model-wise, though, my issue with Runyon's method is that he uses the LBRP followed immediately by the invoking heptagram of the planet. That's the same as LBRP/GIRH. The issue is that in my experience, without the LIRH what you wind up getting is a microcosmic manifestation, or something weighted strongly in that direction. So you generally have more problems separating your thoughts from those of the spirit and so forth.

That might not be as much of a problem for you, and as I said, if it works go ahead and keep doing it. It might not work the same way for me as it does for everyone.

Dacia Pacea said...

Good point Scott. Poke Runyon's youtube video from 1995 (I think) made me want to start learning about and practicing magick back before I got into it.

I remember he performed a reenactment of a ritual for conjuring Astarte-Astaroth both as a goddess and a demon form. I also remember he worked with Netzach of Yesod.

But I find his system to be a bit too complicated for me and I also don't understand why he called the goddess both in the form of an all powerful being and in that of "a part of the deep mind" aka demon.

Whenever I work with Lilith for instance, I do it the pagan way, addressing the goddess herself, without refering to her in some way that would point towards the demonized traits she had been attributed over the ages.

Whenever I work with a chthonic spirit, I do it by calling the names of the celestial hierarchy above them, somewhat similar to when I would call a planetary spirit, say Chasmodai. But without calling the archangel and intelligence, only using the names of power in the conjuration.

But as Scott said, if it works for you, that's great!

Dacia Pacea said...

Come to think about it, I remember he had bound the "part of the deep mind" and only engaged the goddess in conversation.

But I see no reason for doing that, even when using his system. If he located Astarte as being in Netzach and wanted to work with her in Yesod, I see no reason why he didn't simply call upon her without previously binding the "demonic" part. In my opinion refering to an ancient god as a demon simply because some ill intended people in the past turned gods into demons for their own agenda is an insult to that god.

My ritual with Lilith goes like this: Operant Field - initial invocation - MP (optional) - addressing my angel for assistance - prayers to call upon the goddess - conversation or whatever - giving thanks and asking(!) her to depart - LBRP/QC.

Scott Stenwick said...

The whole idea that demons are part of whatever the "deep mind" is supposed to be is in my opinion basically wrong. First off, the unconscious is mostly a collection of conditioning loops, so it's more like a simple machine than anything we normally call a mind. Second, it implies that you're not working with an external consciousness at all, but rather some sort of psychological projection. Maybe Runyon sees the deity as some kind of external entity, but if so, it seems to me that worrying about the "deep mind" aspect doesn't make much sense. The macrocosm always includes the microcosm, pretty much by definition.

Dacia Pacea said...

That too! Even if he would've considered demons to be spirits with their own consciousness and personality, I see no reason why he needed to call upon Astaroth. Then he would bind the spirit. And only then would he call upon Astarte. I remember that in the video I mentioned, he asked Astarte to forgive them for constraining her, but they were only doing that to the part of her representing some part of their deep mind. Or something :)) Way too many twists and turns for me, especially since this whole ritual is done after accessing a sephira of another sephira.